singularityooc | Policy Discussion

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!mod post

Policy Discussion

Some of Singularity's players have questions about the game policies on AU character applications. This post has been put up to allow players to approach the staff to ask questions, offer suggestions, and voice concerns regarding those policies. The moderators are also available via IM/PM [contact information] if any player does not feel comfortable discussing their concerns in public.

As of the end of this application round (August 15th), AU applications will be closed until this matter can be resolved. This ban on AU apps does not apply to the exceptions listed in the AU policies (malleable protagonists and canon AUs).

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Personally, I don't have a problem with that rule and I think it's meant to address AU concepts that pretty much take the character and turn it into something it really isn't or shouldn't be. Some AU concepts turn a canon character into someone unrecognizable - and really, AUs of a character should still be recognizable as that character, even if their circumstances are different.

Yeah, but the problem is it doesn't really clarify anything. It's so subjective that each mod is going to have a different idea as to what is recognizable and what isn't, and what circumstances make a character too different from canon, what's "good" and what's "bad"

When it comes down to it, all application judgement is subjective. Some people disagree on character characterization when it comes to pure canon characters. Some people disagree on what makes a good original character and what doesn't. Ultimately, the app (and/or) mod team have the final say. Even if we went to a system where the whole game voted on apps, there'd still be subjective interpretation regarding what makes a good AU or doesn't that varied from person to person.

This is essentially how I feel. I mean, the "better as a fanfic" rule is into place because while I think a great writer can definitely make an awesome story out of "what if" scenarios, it gets a lot harder to determine what is IC for the character after that if there are radical changes. It doesn't make the story/scenario bad, but it becomes harder to determine "is this what they would do" and how would it affect possible castmates already in place.

Pretty much this is why the rule is currently in place. We do allow OCs for a reason.

This sounds kind of ridiculous and a more than a little silly, but. A possible example.

Say I wanted to app, for whatever reason, some sort of Jade Harley that was, oh man I can't even make this ridiculous enough -- OKAY say that Jade lived in Japan with two parents who loved her very much and never had a nuclear omnipotent dog or a robotic session-crashing bunny but still played SBURB. Under your rules, this would most likely be a "better as fanfic" idea (and on that, I totally agree for this particularly horrible AU). If I were to change her name and app her in as an OC, changing the name of the game and the lands (possibly even her name), but essentially keeping the story the same -- kids play a game that destroys the world, they fuck it up, they have to Scratch to fix it -- would that be appable?

I know this sounds completely off the wall, but that is kind of what I just got from this conversation.

To be fair, an OC like this would maybe come under scrutiny for plagiarism, but it'd highly depend on how many aspects of the game were just like Homestuck.

The idea of people playing a game like SBURB isn't something super unique to that fiction after all! .hack is another popular fandom that comes to mind, as another to use that concept. Jade's character trope isn't exactly super unique either. The point though with that, since this is an OC and not an AU there's less of a chance of causing a disruption with canonmates, if that makes sense?

Oh yeah it was a horrible example and I would probably tear my eyesockets out writing that application.

Okay, that makes sense! I was just wondering, and that's cleared things up a lot. Thanks.

Then maybe the rule should be better clarified to reflect this? Instead of naming it Better As Fanfic and putting down the idea that only two or three points change equal unappability and perhaps revise it along the lines of:

"AU Applications that take a radically different tone in characterization (stealing the example below, brainwashing Aang from ATLA into a bitter angry avenger for the Fire Nation) may not be accepted due to a character's significant changes and deviations from their canon selves." While the setting will factor in to some degree, if the applicant has a good handle on what seems like the character's voice in a significantly deviating setting while retaining their personality (I'd like to point out the AU Karkat as an example here) then it should easily be fair game. Calling it "better as fanfic" causes confusion for players due to vagueness and allows for more wild interpretations of the rule that can cause a lot of insanity on everyone's part.

IMO, if your AU changes major events/setting as well as personality, that shouldn't be allowed. If you keep the basic canon setting/events and alter personality based on other minor changes, that should work. If you change the setting and keep personality the same, that should work too. It's when you change both that you get weird hard-to-judge AUs, since you're changing the character in multiple ways, which is pretty much the problem you keep bringing up.

But I don't think the entire concept of setting-swapped AUs should be banned just because it has the potential to be too off. If the concern is that characters will be too different to be recognizable, that's what it should be judged for.

+1ing this too. Particularly:

"...the potential to be too off. If the concern is that characters will be too different to be recognizable, that's what it should be judged for."

This, in one sentence, sums up everything I am and have been trying to get across in this post. As it stands, the rule and how I've interpreted mod responses on this matter so far make it seem like an AU that has the potential to be too off is rejected on principle, when the AU should be judged on whether it is too off or not.

While I agree that it's a good rule, I also agree that it's very subjective. Which moderator gets to decide when a character is/isn't themselves? I think it's a difference in nature vs. nurture, personally -- if we believe that a character is given a set of traits at the beginning of their lives, those fundamental things should stay the same even if, say, Foxface had been from District 11 instead of District 5. This also applies to other AUs where people take the character and put them in different situations or living experiences. It's the challenge of a good AU to find ways that make their base personality remains the same when the entire setting changes.

Yes, I agree it's very subjective. But I think all application processes are subjective. When it comes down to it, the mods are making a call about whether or not they think a character or concept or player would make a good fit for the game they run. I don't think it's a judgement call on whether the AU is a "good" one, or not.

I think that decision rests with the group supervising apps. As I mentioned, even if we went to a system where the entire game got to throw input into the app process, we'd still have disagreements about what does or doesn't make a good AU. And ultimately, we'd still have to work them out (although in that case, it'd probably simply be by virtue of a majority vote or what have you).

Edited 2011-08-15 05:01 (UTC)

That's true! And I suppose that someone always comes out with the proverbial short end of the stick. It just feels like some of the hesitations that the mods have against AUs are a little too stringent, perhaps even biased against certain types of AU characters. But then again, I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes, so I don't really want to point fingers, just bring it up as a thought.

Oh god the entire game voting on AUs would be positively horrible.

'Any biases that moderators and app team members may have, whether it be regarding types of AUs, particular canons, or particular characters, are left at the door when we process applications. AUs are not judged based on whether we like them or not, but rather whether they will fit into the setting of the game without disrupting current or future players while still remaining recognizable as said character.

(deleted comment)

Man-D, unless you mean the previous app team (who can speak for themselves if they like), I have never discussed apps with you, and I don't appreciate the implication. I hope it was inadvertent.

Mmm no I don't mean you at all! I am purposefully keeping everyone vague, and whether it was the current or the past team I won't even say. It hasn't happened in a great while, though, and I do believe the situation is resolved. I am just admitting that I have had things spoken to me before that seem to go against this belief, and if I am going to get attacked just for saying that, I really don't feel comfortable discussing this any more and I will go delete that comment.

You made a public accusation of unprofessional behavior that was phrased vaguely enough it could have meant me. This is not an attack, and I do think you're far too nice to do something like that on purpose, but I'm not going to mince words about it, either.

It was specifically phrased so it could've meant anyone, and I apologize if it felt unreasonably accusatory. I admit that it was rather hurtful, and I'm sorry. I don't want to step on anyone's toes, so I'll go ahead and delete it, if that's alright.

I'm not upset, and I hope this gets resolved in a suitably Zen fashion soon. ♥

In the future we would prefer if people did not delete comments on discussions, regardless of whether or not issues arise with them. We would like to keep our record of the discussion as whole as possible.

If it's going to make people mad and also make me upset, I'd rather not have it stick around. Sorry if you wanted it kept, but I just don't feel comfortable talking in this forum any more, and only this request is really keeping me from deleting all my responses in this thread.

Would you mind IMing me? This is Vic (vicioushallway on AIM). We would like to look into this, if it's a particular member of the team.

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